1armBandit
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38 votes1armBandit
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134 votes
An error occurred while saving the comment An error occurred while saving the comment 1armBandit
commented
in an earlier post I talked about war scores and why they were not exactly right. So to back that up with facts I will show here this past war results.. A note first. In these pictures it will show All In as having 19 in war... at the start of war they had 22, so I used 22 in my figures.
the 2 pics are the top 10 crews from war
https://img.crpg.me/Zxv.jpg
https://img.crpg.me/byv.jpgThat is how they finished in war .... now lets take a look at the order of how they finished by entry average... what each crew scored per member in order of socre
Exiles 55,849 each
Nothing But Good Times 46,617 each
Mustangs 45,314
ByteMe 40,781
Moguls 40,279
All In 38,868
Ocean11 37,908
No Fear 32,892
Lucky Dogs 27,085
Spinners & Winners 19,539Without going through each crew to make a comparison and disregarding war winners extra points, you can see that actual point awards for crew rank do not match up with accomplishment.
Picking ONE example only ... lets use the extremes. The highest scoring crew per person ...exiles at 54K per person got 22,340 crew points (using only 10%) while Spinners and Winners the lowest point per person average at 19.5K got 39,078 crew points.
So Exiles who scored 2.86 times as much per person got less then 60% crew score of Spinners. You can go down the line and see the disparity in crew point awards or I could list each of them here ... and will do so if there is any interest, and yes the war winner 25% will change these numbers .... but that really has no place here as the 10% figure is what is the across the board award for all crews.
Any questions ...please ask me
~1armBandit~
**side note ...ALL IN crews average doesn't really depict what the 19 left in war scored ... its skewed toward the low side because they lost 3 people during the war.
An error occurred while saving the comment 1armBandit
commented
battleborn ... think you are right and wrong about some things ... did you ignore the example i gave in my post ... let me put it here again so you can be sure to see it
Look at another example. Last war one crew averaged around 26K for each player, another crew 36K per person and another crew 54K per person.... so who got the most crew points in this example .... the crew who averaged 26K and the crew who averaged 54K got the LEAST points ...this seem fair to anyone?
can you see where this is wrong?
now quick showing of same thing for battle ... a 100 person crew gets together with another 100 person crew for battle ... the winner averages say 6K per person thats 600,000 score of 150,000 crew points. So in your example below you would need to do 4 battles score 150k and win in all 4 to match their ONE battle .... so can you see where changing the battle scoring is beneficial to your crew as well? Now on flip side lets look at the loser of my fantasy battle ...say they only score 4k per person that 400,000 points ..as loser they still get 40,000 crew points...more then your crew got for winning ... can you see this ?
This isnt about taking away from a certain crew or crews its about making it FAIR for EVERY crew , regardless of size ..do I have all the answers ,..no i dont I had some ideas and put them out there to look at. But changing battle and war scores is more about making a 10 person crew or a 25 person crew on an even playing field CREW POINT wise as a 50 person crew or 100 person crew. I cant see then numbers for last war right now to give you exact figures ...but the example above should be more then plain and self explanatory. the crew scoring 26k per man ...got more crew point then the crew who averaged 54K each.... thsi is wrong there is NO other way to look at it .
An error occurred while saving the comment 1armBandit
commented
lol holy ... actually I wouldn't be at the top.. your crew would be and I doubt my crew would move up. But I see you joined this year, but I have 5 years here, so I did put in the time and I have been in first for crew ranking. Power Gamers never got beat and I was in that crew, and I was in 20/20 for awhile all of it we were in first. So yes i put in the time, and no i don't care about ranking first....been there done that. What this thread is trying to do is make it FAIR for EVERYONE here ...regardless of what crew your are in.
OC11 has more wins, more battles been here longer... so in grand scheme of things YOUR crew should probably be first. But as it stands you have no chance to get there. So this is as much for your crew as any other crew. Read what has been written. Its simple really.... and if you were to ask around I bet you would find I have helped more people here then you might think. If you would like more discussion, or a better explanation pm me and leave this thread for what it was intended for ... discussion on battle and war scores and the ranking system.
~1armBandit~
An error occurred while saving the comment 1armBandit
commented
I am sorry, a bit confused. What does any of that you 2 posted have to do with battles/wars or crew ranking?
An error occurred while saving the comment 1armBandit
commented
to bring this back to the first page ...
of course everyone is aware that the team ranking is not right ... but how to fix it?
With the disparity in crew size which has been a problem from day 1, somehow a new formula as to be instated to try and offset this. It should be obvious that the easiest fix is to limit crew size, but its been that way for a long time and doesn't seem as if a size limit is going to be forthcoming...
So what to do.. I sent an e-mail to James showing how a large crew scores more for losing then a lot of crews can score for winning... does this seem right to anyone? Only idea I could come up with is averaging. Then it wouldn't matter if it was 5 people or 50 battling. 10 people in a battle and you score 100,000 points ...that's 10k per person if you win its 2.5K rank score if you lose 1K crew score. Yes crew ranking scores would come down if made retroactive (as it should).
Look at another example. Last war one crew averaged around 26K for each player, another crew 36K per person and another crew 54K per person.... so who got the most crew points in this example .... the crew who averaged 26K and the crew who averaged 54K got the LEAST points ...this seem fair to anyone?
Now double day bomb floors. Is this part of who has the best crew or who spends the most? Its a play for free site, so buying your spot in ranking? But that is what has happened. Is the crew with most wins first? no ...highest winning % ...no ...largest crew? no ... longest crew here? no ... So right away everyone can see that ranking right now is all about who wants to spend the most or who is able to spend the most. This also needs to change. How? I don't know. I would suggest that individual points become far less of an additive for crew rank, or that crew points are shut off anytime someone has double points... or take all individual points scored from bombs out of crew ranking and make it only xps earned in games and missions etc. I am sure others may have ideas and most likely better then what i have come up with ...but long and short of it is ...bomb floors should never determine your crew ranking. It's wrong and everyone here knows it, whether they will admit it or not.
I tried with e-mails to James, With pictures of before and after, and will do another after this war to show how a 100 person crew will score far more then a 10 person crew ....even if they can only average half of the score per person... I already covered double day with pics. I got no response from James, but maybe with this thread he will decide to take another look. Think all most here are after is a bit of fairness for each player, no matter which crew they are in..and i don't think thats too much to ask
An error occurred while saving the comment 1armBandit
commented
of course everyone is aware that the team ranking is not right ... but how to fix it?
With the disparity in crew size which has been a problem from day 1, somehow a new formula as to be instated to try and offset this. It should be obvious that the easiest fix is to limit crew size, but its been that way for a long time and doesn't seem as if a size limit is going to be forthcoming...
So what to do.. I sent an e-mail to James showing how a large crew scores more for losing then a lot of crews can score for winning... does this seem right to anyone? Only idea I could come up with is averaging. Then it wouldn't matter if it was 5 people or 50 battling. 10 people in a battle and you score 100,000 points ...that's 10k per person if you win its 2.5K rank score if you lose 1K crew score. Yes crew ranking scores would come down if made retroactive (as it should).
Look at another example. Last war one crew averaged around 26K for each player, another crew 36K per person and another crew 54K per person.... so who got the most crew points in this example .... the crew who averaged 26K and the crew who averaged 54K got the LEAST points ...this seem fair to anyone?
Now double day bomb floors. Is this part of who has the best crew or who spends the most? Its a play for free site, so buying your spot in ranking? But that is what has happened. Is the crew with most wins first? no ...highest winning % ...no ...largest crew? no ... longest crew here? no ... So right away everyone can see that ranking right now is all about who wants to spend the most or who is able to spend the most. This also needs to change. How? I don't know. I would suggest that individual points become far less of an additive for crew rank, or that crew points are shut off anytime someone has double points... or take all individual points scored from bombs out of crew ranking and make it only xps earned in games and missions etc. I am sure others may have ideas and most likely better then what i have come up with ...but long and short of it is ...bomb floors should never determine your crew ranking. It's wrong and everyone here knows it, whether they will admit it or not.
I tried with e-mails to James, With pictures of before and after, and will do another after this war to show how a 100 person crew will score far more then a 10 person crew ....even if they can only average half of the score per person... I already covered double day with pics. I got no response from James, but maybe with this thread he will decide to take another look. Think all most here are after is a bit of fairness for each player, no matter which crew they are in..and i don't think thats too much to ask.
An error occurred while saving the comment 1armBandit
commented
sorry to move off the main topic in this thread that has just started ... but I would hate for any new players to read diamonddans post and think there is any truth in it.
dan has been told numerous times that level of player and bet amount doesn't matter ..for the new players your bet amount makes NO difference ...your level does not either. Quick example .. hitting your number once in roulette is worth 900 points in a battle or war.. if you are level 1 or level 100 ...if you bet 1 chip or 1000 chips your score will still be 900. This is the same across all games ..a BJ is BJ for everyone and scores same ... 52 cards up in soli is same for all ...etc ...so battle away everyone has same chances. oh and BTW ...bars count for nothing in battles and havent for several years
again very sorry to hijack the thread
1armBandit
supported this idea
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47 votes1armBandit
supported this idea
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52 votes
An error occurred while saving the comment 1armBandit
commented
now i am confused ..I know that easy to do ..confuse me
you don't care about any #1 status ... so why did you start this thread? Only reason I can see is fear of your first place ranking. you don't care about any status and bee says many benefit from the bomb floors ..altruistic. not caring about status laudable... so if it stops counting for crew stats that all goes out the window? no more altruism ... you do care about status
it more seems to me you want ranking system tailored to keep your #1 status that you don't care about ... stop SW from closing the gap with battle scores and keep your bomb floor scores.
when i first saw this i thought you were trying to make the ranking system more fair for everyone, but now i see it for what it is .. and i have to admit i am not shocked. lol
so bomb floors are not to help other players and they are absolutely FOR status that you care nothing about ...now that sounds more like "ALL IN" thinking. Never mind replying I am done here. I lost my hip waders.... no votes from me
An error occurred while saving the comment 1armBandit
commented
actually this thread was about battles and how they effect ranking ... since bomb floors are also a ranking problem it makes sense to take that into consideration at the same time ... if James decides to make a change, may as well address both issues at the same time. If an overhaul is in order might as well fix both problems at the same time. I don't actually agree with the scenario in the original post and that is why a discussion of different options is a good thing. I did remove my votes ..if we are only going to look at half the problem ...
the idea that the current ranking system is wrong for battles is very valid and should be fixed, however millions of xps for bomb floors is an equal or even worse problem. The ranking should not be about who spends the most money or who buys the most bombs .. that's silly and leaves out more people and crews from competing then battles do. Most here cannot spend endless cash to help with their ranking.
So despite the thought that we should not look at the entire problem as a whole ...i think its imperative that we do exactly that so James can do a revamp once instead of twice ...once for battles and once for bomb floors..
An error occurred while saving the comment 1armBandit
commented
yes ...of course ..lets dare not try to fix more then one thing ..lets put blinders on and ignore rest
An error occurred while saving the comment 1armBandit
commented
i sort of reread my comments ...i cant find anywhere that i said your crew was weak Bee ... did not even mean to imply that. But here is the thing ...if we use your criteria as to why you should be first ... then lets take Nuthing But Good Times ... 90% win rate with 7 war winners with 1/3 the entries of your crew ...and didnt they just beat you guys in battle a couple of times .... so guess they must be pretty strong too ...if oc11 cant be first with most wins and we going by % ...good times should be first.
An error occurred while saving the comment 1armBandit
commented
after some more thought ... rank points for battle could be an average .... that way would not even have to match up numbers ...a 3 player crew could battle all 100 of the bigger crews and the average score would be all that mattered. Then points for rank could be added as they are now ...your crew averages 20K each for a battle, your award would be 5K .... this eliminates the 100 person crew advantage.... for xps ...maybe no xps awarded anytime someone is at 2x ...this would go a long way to making it a bit more fair.
An error occurred while saving the comment 1armBandit
commented
There are several things wrong with ranking system, do I have a solution..no I don't. But allowing a crew to BUY their way to first by doing bomb floors is clearly wrong no matter how you stack it. Having crews scoring more crew points for LOSING then another crew does for WINNING is clearly stupid. Having a crew that wins maybe half the time ...ahead of a crew that wins 75% of the time is also clearly stupid.100 person crews have been the downfall of the site rank wise since it was allowed. There is NO way to make a ranking system fair when comparing a 100 person crew to a 3 person crew. You could take the 3 highest scorers ever in casino history and put them in a crew and have them battle 4 times a week ..win every time and they will not be able to keep up with a 100 person crew ....or another crew who do a dozen bomb floors on double day. Being able to BUY bombs is no indication your crew is any better then someone else's crew. The crew with the MOST wins is not in first. Why? and fixing battles so that a large crew battles another large crew so that a large jump in crew points should already have been stopped. they don't care if they win or lose because the jump in crew points is more then the rest of the crews can score if they win. Again ...I don't see a way to fix it ...i only know that currently it is extremely unfair to all the crews that don't have 100 members and/or don't do tons of bomb floors. REALLY is the number of bombs you drop any indication of crew strength? lol ..
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81 votes1armBandit
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3 votes
An error occurred while saving the comment 1armBandit
commented
I have to agree that something needs done. I was complaining long and hard about this last night .. the game is so basic ...so simple ... kill the guards, then bust the mine ...people that cannot grasp this simple process need to be penalized in some fashion... and i have been saying this since the game started.
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38 votes1armBandit
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6 votes
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11 votes
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84 votes1armBandit
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23 votes
An error occurred while saving the comment 1armBandit
commented
should have read 10% bonus ...sorry was a typo
1armBandit
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132 votes ...was 135 ...is this not enough votes for James to take action ...shows an awful lot of support for reform