@Rob - yeah not so much support as you think, as folks can vote multiple times.

132 votes ...was 135 ...is this not enough votes for James to take action ...shows an awful lot of support for reform

I like these suggestions from both Topgunner and Cowtoon. Maybe the answer is to move away from ranking based on xp only. I would love to see people playing for fun, have fun and not feel like it's a grind to bomb all day every day for double day and battles as I do feel that's what mostly happens now to gain maximum xp. The war system for all is a great idea too as I remember as a new player being reluctant to join a crew but wondering "what is this war thing" so that would have been great to join without worrying about being part of a crew.
Ranking crews based on different categories/achievements sounds great to me. More emphasis on game play and having fun is what it should be about.

My 2¢ worth.

I was never a fan, where the crew that earned the most xp, won a battle or war. That was all about the deepest pockets. That got changed. (thank you)

I wasn't a fan, where the crew's average score, determined the winner. All you needed was a 1 or 2 member crew, with tremendous luck and they were the winner. That was changed. (thank you)

The two-team model for war failed, with the introduction of extra large crews. That was changed. (thank you)

On War:
I see war as an attempt to involve as many players as possible. If averaging the scores was the answer, I would worry that crews might limit their entries to include only those with high-scoring potential, to achieve the highest average.

War is a main event and should spark interest (or joy, if you're a Konmari fan).

So, I have a crazy idea for war:
What about excluding war from being a crew-ranking event, making it an event for individuals. And, make it all inclusive.

Make it more fun for everyone: winners can earn prizes (maybe for each game/category). Players 'not in a crew' could participate, because it's not crew dependent. Players - in a crew that doesn't battle - might be interested in competing on their own. [xp would still be earned by individuals, and applied to crew at regular game play rate (if in a crew)].
Maybe war could have a different combination of games on the scorecard, with individual challenges (replaces team challenges). For me, it's become boring to have battles and wars that are identical.

The inequities of xp earned, due to uneven crew numbers would no longer be contentious.

Connsider that the current war configuration is almost individual-based.

On a positive note - related to double day:
I have no issue with double day. (ok, lag sucks). On double day many players surface as generous. Numerous bombs are dropped. My take is "everyone gains"; whether in the form of xp or treasures. There is a 'deep pockets' component, but I'm ok with it. It took a long time, before I could give back to the community, and it's fun being able to do so. As an aside, I feel compelled to mention the addition of the schedule (thank you LDub). It gave order to the chaos. Prior to the schedule option, many players announced their bomb floors (or outdoor drops), at the same time and the confusion grew.

Soooo ... that's my 2¢ worth ... or maybe more like 5¢.
Cowtoon

P.S. TopGunner had some good ideas a well.

in an earlier post I talked about war scores and why they were not exactly right. So to back that up with facts I will show here this past war results.. A note first. In these pictures it will show All In as having 19 in war... at the start of war they had 22, so I used 22 in my figures.

the 2 pics are the top 10 crews from war
https://img.crpg.me/Zxv.jpg
https://img.crpg.me/byv.jpg

That is how they finished in war .... now lets take a look at the order of how they finished by entry average... what each crew scored per member in order of socre

Exiles 55,849 each
Nothing But Good Times 46,617 each
Mustangs 45,314
ByteMe 40,781
Moguls 40,279
All In 38,868
Ocean11 37,908
No Fear 32,892
Lucky Dogs 27,085
Spinners & Winners 19,539

Without going through each crew to make a comparison and disregarding war winners extra points, you can see that actual point awards for crew rank do not match up with accomplishment.

Picking ONE example only ... lets use the extremes. The highest scoring crew per person ...exiles at 54K per person got 22,340 crew points (using only 10%) while Spinners and Winners the lowest point per person average at 19.5K got 39,078 crew points.

So Exiles who scored 2.86 times as much per person got less then 60% crew score of Spinners. You can go down the line and see the disparity in crew point awards or I could list each of them here ... and will do so if there is any interest, and yes the war winner 25% will change these numbers .... but that really has no place here as the 10% figure is what is the across the board award for all crews.

Any questions ...please ask me

~1armBandit~

**side note ...ALL IN crews average doesn't really depict what the 19 left in war scored ... its skewed toward the low side because they lost 3 people during the war.

It is clear that there will be no resolution anytime soon, as i think bandit mentioned james wanted to nip battles in the bud to focus on other game developments, which i am appreciatice of.

There was mention of increasing crew house functionality in the past. I would like to see this aspect developed with players having the ability to hold trophies to be displayed in crew buildings like top chips earned for for month of september, or most poker tourneys won for month...

Could even have trophies that change each month to be held by crews like most jackpots for month. Then therr could be a rank system developed on achivements rather than points, which clearly has been a continual issue for years. This would or could negate the issue surrounding battles vs bombs for crew earning points to be top crew.... Achievement based system could give new crews and/or players a competitive chance for top spot. Keep xp for crews as a sortable category like battles, but i dont think they should be the end all determimant in top crew.

When you look at the game leaderboard for chips, xp, slot spins, poker hands, etc... There are so many categories. It seems to me that crew ranks should include more diverse categories to be sorted by...

I think most people from comments posted would like to see rank system be determined by game play more than pay to win. I know others have mentioned they dont spend to buy cp and save, but it really is a slog to compete with big chip earners, high stakes poker players and deep pocket spenders...

My end point to clarify is i would like the goldfire team to focus on diversifying and developing crew functionailty and introduce rankings by achievements and allow players to earn displayable crew trophies for crew house and/or casinos. Less emphasis on points, more on crew achievements and in turn fun (after all collecting bombs is as fun as watching paint dry). (still love a good close faught battle between oc11, all in, byte me, spinners, etc... points or no points, enjoy bragging rights for that moment in time). Would love to see engaged responses from all crew leaders cb, robbie, atoc, ren, taz, kooky, rebel (but not diamond dan for obvious s reasons) etc.. ??

As always i appreciate James and Goldfire team efforts, i know you guys are flat out, but will be able to remedy a solution. :-)

-TOPGUNNER

@ BattleBorn, , There is so much wrong with the crews. Ranking for instance. War, since they added crew challenges to indivisual playing somehow war will have to fit in with the ranking. Unless its keep under a individual tab like with war wins and not count towards the crew but with indivisual play he could remove crew challenges.

The crews would need to be reset (example quarterly)
No matter what all crews will have to be reset.
So much wrong that needs to be fixed. Averaging i believe worked best. But that also wont work good with the larger crews. No way you can balance 3/100.

game system
there is many systems for games but for this 1 best to:
make a yearly league with prize at the end can be to 1st or 1-3 .
2nd : bombs need to be gone from crew xp !!!

those 2 factors will make a fair competition for all and gie a chance to new crews and ppl
the way its now its just wrong no chance to no one
unless you dont care from crew xp and you just battle for fun ( 24h for nothing ) this system good for you but if you want to move up in crew rank better forget it as long this system still on !

battleborn ... think you are right and wrong about some things ... did you ignore the example i gave in my post ... let me put it here again so you can be sure to see it

Look at another example. Last war one crew averaged around 26K for each player, another crew 36K per person and another crew 54K per person.... so who got the most crew points in this example .... the crew who averaged 26K and the crew who averaged 54K got the LEAST points ...this seem fair to anyone?

can you see where this is wrong?

now quick showing of same thing for battle ... a 100 person crew gets together with another 100 person crew for battle ... the winner averages say 6K per person thats 600,000 score of 150,000 crew points. So in your example below you would need to do 4 battles score 150k and win in all 4 to match their ONE battle .... so can you see where changing the battle scoring is beneficial to your crew as well? Now on flip side lets look at the loser of my fantasy battle ...say they only score 4k per person that 400,000 points ..as loser they still get 40,000 crew points...more then your crew got for winning ... can you see this ?

This isnt about taking away from a certain crew or crews its about making it FAIR for EVERY crew , regardless of size ..do I have all the answers ,..no i dont I had some ideas and put them out there to look at. But changing battle and war scores is more about making a 10 person crew or a 25 person crew on an even playing field CREW POINT wise as a 50 person crew or 100 person crew. I cant see then numbers for last war right now to give you exact figures ...but the example above should be more then plain and self explanatory. the crew scoring 26k per man ...got more crew point then the crew who averaged 54K each.... thsi is wrong there is NO other way to look at it .

Sry but the argument of the larger versus smaller crew battles doesn't hold any water. As crew battles are the same number of participants. You can have a crew of 100 and you are matched against a crew of 3, your still battling 3 out of your 100. Which means you will have a smaller score. We have 100 man crews and they are not at the top of the rank.

If you look at the crew scoring breakdown, xp earned by crew members is worth 50 times less than a wining battle/crew score. To give you some idea - I made 10,000,000 xp last dd - that equated to 50k crew score - our last battle, we scored 150k in crew score which gave us 37,500 in crew score as we won the battle. That being said, it took the better part of 2 weeks of focused work to rack up 20k cps it too for my 401 bombs that were set off on my 2 floors versus 18-24 hours of work by 7 crew members.

I think the biggest issue is recruiting. Most new players are rather clueless about battling. It is a 24 hour slog. I know folks who stay up playing for 24 hours, I am too old for that crap, but I go for 18-20 hours depending on my score and what's going on in the real world. The majority of players do not want to slog through 24 hours of playing a single game. Most have to work, take care of family, etc. So when a crew finds a good group of battlers, they are going to rack up the wins.

@babychels In your original post, you just state that it needs to be ranked by wins/losses. Where would the incentive be to continuing battling once a crew has a huge win percentage? Should the wins/losses reset every time the founder of a crew is changed?

This is not elementary school, not everybody wins or gets a participation trophy - war outstanding. There is no such thing as fairness in competition. Some people are better than others, that is what makes us unique. Oh the playing field can be the same, the number of players can be even, the games can be the same, but not everyone is Michael Jordan. Not everyone wants to spend the time to make DD rooms or battle for 24 hours straight. One of the jobs as a crew leader or designate is to go out and recruit. ALL IN had no clue, I would do a bomb room. No one from ALL IN even suggested it to me. I just thought it might be fun.

Finally, you also need to remember that we didn't have war in September so that may have affected rankings as well.

One suggestion is that the battling crew leaders get together on a forum and start to map out who is playing who so that you can have large battles, gaining a large amount of crew score. The flip side to that is that, when you play the larger crews, you may lose. The complaint would then rise that maybe my loss should count as much if I battle a top 10 crew versus a 100th ranked crew. I am not sure that is a path the game should go down.

I feel you are looking for a perfect system. I don't believe there is a perfect solution. If you feel there is, please share it.

Exactly kooky. I want fairness for every crew. How can you enjoy the game being one-sided ? I don't enjoy playing knowing the game is broken.

Thank you Kooky for commenting on this thread.

I can't believe people are unwilling to see what is being suggested here. The points system in battle at moment allows for a large crew to lose and gain more xp and crew ranking than a small crew that wins battle. And the double day xp accrument allows for rankings to be stolen from hardworking crews also. Take the argument away from All In (as I don't think personal attack was meant) and imagine that a 100 man crew all held double day parties and managed to lose battles all month. They may outrank everyone eventually losing battles all year but personal xp gain meant they got to number 1. Is that fair? If so, then there is no point in crew battles or wars. Not even sure why I bother to post as I don't play much but I like to support the game being more fair in hope I may return to play more. I truly believe that is what Babychels is asking for, fairness for all, not for just her own crew.

or lets just reset each month, get a trophy, move on...boom mic drop

well put battle, and high says he loves you man, because he is banned from posting here, not sure why, anyways, well put!

You have 4 options to sort crews by, one of them is wins - feel free to sort however you want. Win/Loss isn't a true reflection either. We spent most of this month battling smaller crews - did we win, sure - but our scores weren't as high - did you think of that aspect of it? I seemed to remember we beat Nuthin' But Good Times and I think that was our largest crew score of the month. It sure wasn't because we were sitting around waiting for DD.

An idea would be a ladder system. if you want to advance, you have to play the crew above you, if you don't you drop. If the crew below you beats you, then you drop. If you decide to not battle, maybe you have 2 weeks to battle before you drop. A big issue is the fact that crew battles are solely arranged by the timing of declaring for battle. If you want big scores in crew battles, than you need to arrange battles with other large crews. It's frustrating as hell to have 8 people ready for battle and then get paired with a 3 man battle team.

Of course, if you had someone in charge of matching crews, I am sure some of the folks here, you know the ones who incessantly whine about high cp prices, would claim bias and so forth.

In terms of dd, personally, I did 2 rooms and didn't spend a dime (real money) on cp. I had other folks buy my cp for me through winning at poker. Doesn't always work out for me, but usually it does. I have probably spent over 1bil on cp just in poker winnings. Bomb swaps help as well. It has taken me a few months to figure out how to earn cp and manage chips to buy cp. That is what I like to do. Some folks just like to play the games and don't bother with running casinos.

I am new to this game, so I don't have all the baggage of the past. Please don't look at this as defending ALL IN - we are all adults and can defend ourselves. I have only been a ALL IN member for a month or so.

If you lose crew score out of DD, you will lose people doing floors and that means less people attending parties, which means less xp for those who do host floors. In fact, I had never done a DD floor on my own until last month when I did 2.

Finally, I have no baggage of previous history in this game. I haven't even played it a year. I spent a lot of time in Jonny2Guns crew and was quite jaded by his opinion of everybody. When that crew imploded, I just wanted some drama free time to figure things out. And figure some things out, I sure did - I am always willing to help others grow in the game. Hit me up in game, I am always willing to share ideas and talk casino shop. Best of luck all.

Battle Born
ALL IN
Former Fury
Former Outlaws

This game has so much patential. This game could go along way. The game cant be broken or you will never see it's full patential.

Lol Rob, ahhhh, Well if a movement is born of negativity, it does not stand a chance to survive, or thrive, I appreciate that you have been here for five years, thank you for your service. High has been here almost a year and a half, and believe me he likes to talk. And what does that have to do with the thread either, you want to pm, friend me and we can talk. So here goes, in response to your thread maybe you will understand if I put it a different way. I am all about fair, I have to be, you think I dont know why and how we got bumped, you think we are unaware that it was stolen from us? But we play on, have fun, stay positive, you think we do not know that under this current system we will never regain it? That it is when the rules changed that it was mysteriously handed over to said crew? After a very ummm, how do I say, strongly worded e-mail to person from a certain member of a certain crew? That strangely resulted in that person and crew getting exactly what they wanted, or else? I think that is what the issue should be...let the community know what they are actually up against then we can talk about your thread, until that happens, and all of this is a mute point

I do support the site. I've been supporting this sight before the private beta started. Their is people out there that does support this game and will continue to support. It's up to that person on what amount. There is people that cant support the game. Their is some that just plays. Supporting or no supporting we want what's broken fixed. I put a lot of hours into playing this game. For those of us that wants a fair game should have the say so. It's totally wrong for those to tell us to play a broken game. It's not fun when you we're able to move up in the crews at one time by just playing. Now you will never be able to compete for top crew.

lol holy ... actually I wouldn't be at the top.. your crew would be and I doubt my crew would move up. But I see you joined this year, but I have 5 years here, so I did put in the time and I have been in first for crew ranking. Power Gamers never got beat and I was in that crew, and I was in 20/20 for awhile all of it we were in first. So yes i put in the time, and no i don't care about ranking first....been there done that. What this thread is trying to do is make it FAIR for EVERYONE here ...regardless of what crew your are in.

OC11 has more wins, more battles been here longer... so in grand scheme of things YOUR crew should probably be first. But as it stands you have no chance to get there. So this is as much for your crew as any other crew. Read what has been written. Its simple really.... and if you were to ask around I bet you would find I have helped more people here then you might think. If you would like more discussion, or a better explanation pm me and leave this thread for what it was intended for ... discussion on battle and war scores and the ranking system.

~1armBandit~

Well Rob, it has to do with play and have fun, that is what it is about. The only people crying are those that are not at the top, but think they should be. That is what it has to do with it. The fact is every time James changes things someone complains, and the changes are always a result of complaints. Imagine how he feels? Have you ever tried to make 120 people in one room happy at the same time? Try it, see how you like it. That is what it has to do with,,,,crew ranking is only a problem to those that feel they are entitled to a higher ranking. Play and have fun, put in the work and the time, as far as battle, well it should not be that much of crew ranking, although some like to think,".. well we beat that crew so we should have that spot" NOOOOOO, you beat part of a crew, at one time or another. and they may have beat the crew that beat you?? so now what??? So what, and the crews that have the top spot, spent years into that top spot, so just wipe all that away? So it is easier for new crews to move up? Because thy think they are better than everyone else?Typical in life no one wants to work for anything anymore, they all want it handed to them on a silver platter? Right make things better for themselves and screw over another, there is no magic wand, and it is a process, it ebbs and flows. Play, have fun, help the new comer....that is what is has to do with this entire farce as I see it.